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Honda/Acura Ingalls vs SPC Rear-Camber Kit Debate: 2015 Update

  • Posted: 11-01-2015 07:31 PM
  • Blogs had famously proclaimed in 2010 that for rear camber kits on Acura applications, avoiding kits with ball joints was best. Times and products change. To some users this advice seemed outdated, and so we've revisited the issue in this new writing for 2015. We'll cover a little of what has changed in the last 5+ years, and what has not.


September 2016 updateAnnouncing The New Ingalls 38727 Spherical Adjustable Camber & Toe Kit


What has not changed since 2010?

  • Heeltoe still prefers not to use kits that replace factory ball joints. Ball joint failure is no joke, and we put most of our faith in kits that do not change from genuine ball joints. If a bushing fails, the chances of losing control are much lower than if a ball joint does, since ball joints are not captive in nature.
  • Heeltoe guides users to make sure they are getting a quality product and a good price: Delivering on our promise of VALUE to our customers.


What has changed since 2010?

  • SPC changed their ball joint boot design to better handle deflection and distortion. The new boots are "wrinkled" so there is less stress on them, reducing wear and fatigue on the material. The harsh cracking that occurred in the past is less prevalent. We don't have a time-frame for when this update was made, and it was only brought to our attention last year. Going forward, arms should have the "new" boots on them, so order from with confidence!
  • A copycat brand of kits has come out in recent years and is being sold on eBay. They are not branded the same as Ingalls or SPC, so we are not considering them "fakes," but the parts appear "the same." You can get a knock-off of just about anything these days, and Ingalls and SPC camber kits are no exception (mostly due to their popularity). We, of course, hold fast with the assertion that these should be avoided like the plague. The support you get from sellers listing their parts on eBay, where you have no reasonable ability to provide after-sales support (much less warranty coverage 6 months down the line), can be extremely weak. Purchases of car parts on eBay should be done at the buyers own risk.
  • There have been reports from Ingalls 38725 Camber kit customers with 2004-08 TLs of a quality concern regarding the bushing integrity. Some customers who purchased kits between 2012 and 2013 have reported bushings slipping out of the arm ends, others of wandering toe specs, some of which accompany reports of instability and inner tire wear while driving. A soft bushing durometer was blamed for the concern. Ingalls' bushing design changed during this time frame. While all customer complaints that were lodged with Heeltoe were resolved, we have not been able to get concrete information from Ingalls as to the root cause of the issue. Very few customers had followed through with returning claimed-faulty products for inspection. As of late the negative feedback from customers has subsided. We'll discuss this topic in more detail below.
  • has expended the Ingalls product line in their online catalog.
  • Given increased customer demand for SPC parts, Heeltoe is expanding the offering of this product line online as well. As shown in the previous article and mentioned here, the different companies produce arms that change camber in different ways. In 1g TSX and 3g TL, the Ingalls moves the bottom of the wheel more than the top, and the SPC is the opposite. This is in contrast to the 2g TSX and 4g TL, where the brands flip-flip top-to-bottom movements. This means that some customers will have demands for their camber kits that only one of the manufacturers can provide. Regardless of cost or ball-joint replacement, getting the customer the part that serves their needs first is most important to us.
  • The newer cars' designs changed, and in-turn the manufacturers' solutions for adjusting camber have varied. Case in point...Ingalls vs SPC on the 2009-14 TSX/TL and 8/9g Accord application. Ingalls' 35623 kit replaces an arm and installs an adjustable ball joint. SPC replaces 3 arms with their 65740 kit, and costs significantly more money. We highlight the Ingalls' lower price even though there is a ball joint, because the cost differential makes a good case for going for it. Which one we recommend to a given user depends on their specific requirements, personal preference, and experience.


    SPC 65740, 3-arm kit for 2009-14 TSX/TL and other applications

    Ingalls 35623 for the same 2009-14TSX/TL applications. Note different approach to increasing alignment changes.



So, what's this thing about Ingalls bushings having a problem?

In 2013-14, we had had a few customers with 38725 come to us with bushings that popped out of the ends. We were able to zero-in and notice these people mainly had TLs although there were some TSXs as well. Ultimately, there was a drawn out saga that unfolded on the Acurazine message forum, which we were participatory members in. You can read the thread here.

Our commentart and observations:

  1. We have had repeated rear inner tire wear issues with TLs from varied customers. We get calls on occasion of people with completely stock TLs which display excessive camber, and inner tire wear. Indeed, the two most involved people in the thread both have very mildly lowered cars. Yet, their cars displayed more negative camber than expected. We suspect that while the Ingalls arms may have contributed to the problem, such problem may not have been the only one with the car. It is a lesser known issue that early TLs actually needed rear upper arms replaced due to an alignment issue. In other words, there may be more at play than the camber kits alone, making complete, professional diagnostics from a remote position nearly impossible.

  2. We know the platform of the TL is the same as the Accord and the TSX, and that this platform had evolved from the previous generation cars as well. The TL is the largest car using this Honda/Acura platform and the one with the highest performance potential. We speculate that Honda reached a functional limit of the chassis and suspension geometry with this 2004-08 TL, and an improved part was needed to maintain toe and stable handling. Therefore, it can be expected that an aftermarket adjustable arm, which is suitable for many vehicles similar to the 3rd generation TL, may not be adequate for all drivers without a corresponding design. In other words, the Ingalls 38725 kit may not be a 1-size fits all solution. 

  3. There are striking similarities between Ingalls and J-Power camber arms. We do know that many Ingalls components are made in China. As is the nature of Chinese manufacturers, it seems as though either A) the company that makes the Ingalls parts decided they were going to market the parts for themselves as well and sell them under their own name, or B) a different Chinese manufacturer obtained and Ingalls part and copied it. If we were to speculate, it is possible that some of the cheaper, lower quality parts "infected" an Ingalls production run. If this is true, these kits would have been consumed and in recent years we have not gotten poor feedback.

  4. The question is not whether SPC is better than Ingalls, or vice versa. The question is, if someone buys either kit, what, if any, problems will they have? Despite the claims of a few individuals, neither SPC nor Ingalls kits are likely to be problematic for general use. If a problem occurs with either, should be contacted immediately for support.

  5. The expectation is that if there were problems with these alignment kits, the customers experiencing the issues would be more vocal to their places of purchase or the manufacturer of the parts. We do not consider ranting posts, no matter how articulate, to be a direct complaint. No honest business can put too much faith in anonymous postings online, as there is simply too much freedom to speculate, theorize, and debate without proper knowledge or support. It's a hen house where people throw eggs. If you are a chicken and you have a problem, go to the rooster.

Here are our conclusions:

  • We have sold more than 500 of the Ingalls 38725 kits in the years since the first writing. Negative feedback rate has been extremely low at fewer than 5% over time. Without professional installation or driver feedback, problems can be difficult to qualify as either existing or not. With the rate of complaints, we are unable to verify the consistency or severity of any issue having been mentioned in the thread. General customer response is relied on for feedback, and that response had generally been very good.
  • The above point said, we do give credence to the complaints having been made in the thread. In response to the thread complaints, we conducted an informal poll of some more recent customers we know are using the Ingalls 38725 kit. Outside of customers in the thread, and the few who had contacted us in the past, we did not record any customer displeasure with the handling or longevity of the kit, and deemed a more formal poll unnecessary. We may revisit a formal poll in the future if more complaints surface.
  • Based on the commentary in the thread and our own experience, it seems like Ingalls kits produced between 2011 and 2013 were the subject of complaints. We have not been contacted recently, as in the last couple years, with any concerns with Ingalls kits relating to instability while driving, alignment issues, or failures.
  • While we were participating in the thread, we were communicating with Ingalls and other vendors for their perspective. While there may have been an issue with these kits at some point in time, we were unable to gather current and concurring evidence that many or all customers purchasing and installing Ingalls camber kits had the issues outlined in the above threads.

If a consumer is uncomfortable purchasing an Ingalls kit for their 2004-08 TL, we are happy to provide Hardrace or SPC kits instead. But as of now we continue to stock and deliver Ingalls, as well as SPC, camber kits to happy customers globally.


03-09-2016 01:56 PM at 1:56 PM
So does ingalls now using a new bushing design which u guys are now offering?
Administrator Note:
Yes they do, as detailed in the article the newer bushing is standard equipment.

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